Stroke length

[dboater]

should the starting strokes be long or short strokes? I know they must be full-powered strokes, but anyone knows the ideal length of stroke?

[monitor_lizard]

I believe starting stroke can be long provided one is strong enough to convert the power to the forward movement of the boat. Or else it will just be big splashes of water around...

Anyway, anyone know what the angle of attack should be? the angle of blade entry? should it be completely vertical or slanted at a 45 degree angle?

[shaun]

I believe starting stroke can be long provided one is strong enough to convert the power to the forward movement of the boat. Or else it will just be big splashes of water around...

Anyway, anyone know what the angle of attack should be? the angle of blade entry? should it be completely vertical or slanted at a 45 degree angle?

it should be vertical. completely vertical.

[merman]

for long strokes, won't the angle be swept back towards the end of the stroke just before recovery? Would it affect the efficiency?

[shaun]

for long strokes, won't the angle be swept back towards the end of the stroke just before recovery? Would it affect the efficiency?

If the upperhand is high, it should be fine.

[dboater]

i thought the upper hand has to 'follow through' with the paddle by moving towards the opposite armpit so as to maintain the paddle in a vertical position , as a result, lowering it as the paddle goes deeper? starting to have doubts on my stroke...  :?

[shaun]

i thought the upper hand has to 'follow through' with the paddle by moving towards the opposite armpit so as to maintain the paddle in a vertical position , as a result, lowering it as the paddle goes deeper? starting to have doubts on my stroke...  :?

the upper hand shouldn't drop below the shoulder.
and the paddle shouldn't go deeper (what's the use of going deeper by the way?)

all you need to do is pull yourself past the point where the centre of area that  is projected by your blade. the COA is the axis of rotation for which any movement occurs. there is only ONE degree of freedom.

Don't complicate youself with too many degrees of freedom, especially by making the paddle deeper. just focus on pulling the water.

[Nautilus]

I think when you lean forward for the 'stretch-out' on long strokes, your upper arm will definitely not go too low below your shoulder. When the lower arm fist hits the water, you can start to pull. Thus you do not need to go too deep.

Either way even for short strokes, you would be leaned forward and recovering in that position without the torso leaning back to achieve full stroke length.

On that note, what should be the ideal angle of entry for the blade? Someone told me that to pronate slightly outwards (ie.  \() imagine the slash to be the blade's angle of entry, although i believe the pronation shouldnt be that much; and the boat being depicted by () . ) and catch the water 1/2 feet away from the boat would achieve better glide.
Any truth in this?

[shaun]

I think when you lean forward for the 'stretch-out' on long strokes, your upper arm will definitely not go too low below your shoulder. When the lower arm fist hits the water, you can start to pull. Thus you do not need to go too deep.

Either way even for short strokes, you would be leaned forward and recovering in that position without the torso leaning back to achieve full stroke length.

On that note, what should be the ideal angle of entry for the blade? Someone told me that to pronate slightly outwards (ie.  \() imagine the slash to be the blade's angle of entry, although i believe the pronation shouldnt be that much; and the boat being depicted by () . ) and catch the water 1/2 feet away from the boat would achieve better glide.
Any truth in this?

this person is trying to apply kayak technique to a dragon boat.
the dragon boat is a canoe. not a kayak.

twisting the blade in that manner will have little bernoulli effect for a flat idbf.

for the 1/2 foot away i feel that is it irrelevant. the boat rotates about the centre of rotation which coincides wiht the centre of mass that is submerge. If you pull too far away your force will be translated more into a rotating moment than a forward motion. pull closer for a better forward motion.

another way to look at it would be in terms of fluid dynamics. the most important thign would be that the paddles do not pull beyond the laminar seperation point what the water makes with the boat.

a diagram http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/physics/FluidDynamics/FlyingDynamics/Aerodynamics/SelectedTopics/Aerodynamics/dimensional/ribs6.gif

remember, the places AFTER the separation point are turbulent. So it must be ensured that the boat at all time is to be properly trimmed to push the separation point as far back s possible. if this is not done the wave making resistance will form.


REMEMBER EDDY CURRENTS ARE SWIRLS! they won't just push you forward, they pull you back too!

If this is not done, the people at the back will merely paddle nothing, regardless how strong they are.

[dboater]

thanks for the clarification Shaun. I reconfirmed that the upper hand wont go below the shoulder. Its my imagination :p
the paddle is simply too long to allow me to get it so low.

okay got it. completely vertical and prependicular to both the water and the boat. i heard about the slant blade entry before also. I tried it out and all i achieved was alot of splashes into the boat. then again i think its my catch, i punched too hard into the water. just cant get the angle right when i punch in. but i realise there wont be splashes if you dun punch, but just 'catch'.  :wink: